Sidler Lineage, a tale of two lines
The parents of the first generation of Sidler's we know of in Ottenbach were Johannes Sidler b abt 1574 and Magdalena Stälin. b abt 1550. They had 10 children. There is good documentation that three of their children married and had children. Verena Sidler b 1579-1628 married and had children but the Sidler line died with her because her husband was named Hans Mayer.
However two Sidler family lines came from two of Verena's brothers:
1. Heinrich Sidler 1572-1623 (second child). Five generations after Heinrich - Hans Kaspar Sidler was born 25 October 1705, in Ottenbach, Zürich.
2. Johannes Sidler 1583-+1625 (seventh child). This is the line represented on this website. Five generations after Johannes - Hans Kaspar Sidler, 29 March 1705 -1768 was born.
The two Sidler cousins were born 6 months 27 days apart. They lived in the same town, went to the same Kirche, ate the same food and both married and had children. Interestingly enough they were both Ehegaumers. The Kaspar Sidler represented on this site, who descended from Johannes, died 22 February 1768, while the Kaspar Sidler from Heinrich's line died 23 Oct 1782 or 14 years 9 months and 1 day apart.
132-2-3-2-6) Hans Kaspar Sidler ooI 1728 Veronica Schneebeli, ooII 1747 Elisabeth Schneebeli
Post by Wolf » Tue 5. Nov 2024, 18:12
Hans Kaspar Sidler, ≈ Ottenbach 29.03.1705, Sohn von Jacob
oo Ottenbach 16.11.1728
Veronica "Froneg" Schneebeli, ≈ Ottenbach 22.01.1709, Tochter des Hans Caspar Schneebeli und der Margaretha Stierli, + Ottenbach 28.09.1746
Kinder: [Quelle: Bevölkerungsverzeichnis Ottenbach 1749, E-II-700-79_12, S.153, Ergänzungen aus Geneanet]
18.09.1729 Barbara, + 15.04.1786
11.05.1732 Dorothea, + nach 1749
07.12.1734 Anna, + nach 1749
21.10.1736 Anna Barbara, + nach 1749
01.04.1742 Rudolf, oo 26.01.1768 Elisabetha Sidler, + 07.01.1801 [Details und Nachkommen]
Hans Kaspar Sidler (1705-?)
oo Ottenbach 22.08.1747
Elisabeth Schneebeli, ≈ Affoltern am Albis 28.11.1713, Tochter von Heinrich (≈ 15.04.1683, oo 01.02.1707, + 14.03.1751) und Elisabeth Schneebeli (≈ 20.11.1683, + 12.12.1745), + Ottenbach 05.08.1765 [§]
Kinder aus dieser Ehe sind nicht bekannt. Billeter gibt einen am 20.06.1751 geborenen Sohn Ulrich an - ordnet diesen aber der ersten Ehe zu - was offensichtlich falsch ist (Veronica war 1746 verstorben). Ausserdem ist dieser Ulrich ein Sohn des Rudolf Sidler und der Anna Schneebeli.
[§] Gemäss Sterbeeintrag von 05.08.1765 Ist Elisabeth Schneebeli im Alter von 52 Jahren 8 Monaten und 8 Tagen verstorben, woraus sich ein Geburtsdatum 28.11.1712 errechnet - ein entsprechender Taufeintrag existiert aber nicht. Die 2 von 52 ist eine Korrektur - könnte urspr. 51 Jahre gelautet haben - was zum Taufeintrag 28.11.1713 passen würde. Billeter gibt 28.11.1710 an, was vmtl. ein Tippfehler ist, denn auch hier existiert kein entsprechender Taufeintrag.
Ottenbach-Tote-17650805-Schnebeeli-Elisabeth.jpg
Documents related to Hans Kaspar Sidler:
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| 1705 Jakob Sidler baptism 25 Oct. Ottenbach film 008014328 page 285 |
Close up of birth record:
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| 1705 Hans Kaspar Sidler baptism Ottenbach page 285 |
Wolf:
Baptism 25.10.1715[Sunday] Den 25. 8bris [Oct] 1705
K(ind): Hans Caspar
E(ltern): Jacob Sdler d(er) ..(?).. / Margreth Hegetschweiler
Z(eugen): Hanß Caspar Bär / Anna Schneblin
Note: .(?)..: This could be a profession or a nickname – I am especially unsure about the first letter (a copy of the complete page for comparison might be helpful). Could be Träger (carrier) – but don’t take this for granted!!
Note: I notice on the baptismal entry (29.03.1705) of the “other” Hans Caspar, son of Jacob Sÿdler and Froni Häberlig that after “Sÿdler” there is also one more word, again profession or nickname, which I unfortunately cannot interpret at all. Obviously there were two Jacob Sidler living in Ottenbach at the same time – so the pastor added something for identification. Unfortunately these don’t show up in the marriage and death records.
Note: Checking baptismal records for other children of these two Jacobs might help (if the additional word shows up) to decipher this.
Second translation
Wolf:
1705 Jakob Sidler baptism 25 Oct. Ottenbach film 008014328 page 285:
“Töchterli” on the right page confirms my first guess: Träger.
Note that in the first entry “Jagli Häberlig der jung Träger” is mentioned - though with a more complex “T”.
Idiotikon mentions quite a few explanations other than “carrier”:
Trager 14,566, Treger, Träger
1. carrier, as a person
a) initially someone who carries sth. (an object, a load)
b) in the military field, “Panner-Tr.” (standard bearer)
c) in the commercial field, 'one who, under his own responsibility, takes over pieces from one or more manufacturers for processing and has them made by workers employed by himself'
d) in the legal field, one who bears an obligation, especially in the feudal system
-- α) intermediary, representative
----- 1) of corporations
----- 2) of natural persons, often in the sense of guardian
-- β) tenant, recipient of fiefdom goods
-- γ) debtor of several debtors to the lord of interest and tithes, collector of interest
-- δ) person liable for maintenance (for a path, fence)
e) ear blower, informant (of rumors)
The most interesting one might be “Bannerträger” = standard-bearer.
In the other two records the distinctive expression is not mentioned.
Wolf:
1705 Jakob Sidler baptism 25 Oct. Ottenbach film 008014328 page 285:
“Töchterli” on the right page confirms my first guess: Träger.
Note that in the first entry “Jagli Häberlig der jung Träger” is mentioned - though with a more complex “T”.
Idiotikon mentions quite a few explanations other than “carrier”:
Trager 14,566, Treger, Träger
1. carrier, as a person
a) initially someone who carries sth. (an object, a load)
b) in the military field, “Panner-Tr.” (standard bearer)
c) in the commercial field, 'one who, under his own responsibility, takes over pieces from one or more manufacturers for processing and has them made by workers employed by himself'
d) in the legal field, one who bears an obligation, especially in the feudal system
-- α) intermediary, representative
----- 1) of corporations
----- 2) of natural persons, often in the sense of guardian
-- β) tenant, recipient of fiefdom goods
-- γ) debtor of several debtors to the lord of interest and tithes, collector of interest
-- δ) person liable for maintenance (for a path, fence)
e) ear blower, informant (of rumors)
The most interesting one might be “Bannerträger” = standard-bearer.
In the other two records the distinctive expression is not mentioned.
A standard-bearer, also known as a colour-bearer or flag-bearer, is a person who bears an emblem known as a standard or military colours, i.e. either a type of flag or an inflexible but mobile image, which is used (and often honoured) as a formal, visual symbol of a state, prince, military unit, etc.[1] This can either be an occasional duty, often seen as an honour (especially on parade), or a permanent charge (also on the battlefield); the second type has even led in certain cases to this task being reflected in official rank titles such as Chorąży, Ensign, Cornet, Fähnrich and Alferes/Alférez. (Wikipedia)
Wolf:
Marriage den 25. [dto. = Jan] 1735
Hanß Caspar v(nd) Margreth Sÿdler zu Ott(en)bach.
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| 1735 Hans Caspar marriage 25 January Ottenbach page 365 |
Marriage den 25. [dto. = Jan] 1735
Hanß Caspar v(nd) Margreth Sÿdler zu Ott(en)bach.
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| 1736 Hans Caspar Sidler baptism 15 January Ottenbach page 339 |
Wolf:
Baptism Hanß, den 15. [Jan] 1736 [not Hans Caspar]
Parents: Hanß Caspar vnd Margreth Sÿdler zu Otte(n)bach.
Witnesses: Hanß vnd Anna Sÿdler Ibid. (same location = Ottenbach).
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| 1737 Hans Bernhard Sidler bap 3 Feb Ottenbach page 340 |
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| 1739 Catharina Sidler bap 23 Jun Ottenbach page 345 |
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| 1782 Caspar Sidler burial 77 years 23 Aug Ottenbach film 008126955 page 849 |
Kent translation:
1782, 23 August,
Ehgaumer Caspar Sydler von Ottenbach died at 77 years
Wolf: Ehgaumer (abbreviation Eh for Ehe is quite common)
Gaumen is the Swiss German verb for watch, observe, take care of somebody (e.g. babies, small kids etc.).
The Ehegaumer was also called Stillständer or Kirchenpfleger. Every section or hamlet of a parish had such a senior man who watched the people (kind of espinonage) in order that they did not morally behave badly (mainly according to the Bible). This job in the community was not a paid position. (more on the role of Ehegaumer below)
The Ehegaumer was also called Stillständer or Kirchenpfleger. Every section or hamlet of a parish had such a senior man who watched the people (kind of espinonage) in order that they did not morally behave badly (mainly according to the Bible). This job in the community was not a paid position. (more on the role of Ehegaumer below)
Ehegaumer
After the sermon (church mess) in the church, the pastor held a meeting with these Ehegaumers in standing in the church (that is why they were also called still standers).
They reported all the bad things that happened in their local communities. Minutes were taken on such reporting which are called Stillständer-Protokolle. Many of them were archived and are transcribed now and publicly available on the internet. So you can find out what "misdeeds" your ancestors committed.
Only serious (legal cases) were brought up to the marital court in the City of Zurich (reported by the local pastor) e.g. illegitimate children etc. Often the decisions were pragmatic and ended up in a money fine. (Sources: Kaspar's death certificate, Peter Bertschinger)
Stillstand Protokolle Example:
There are some Stillstand Protokolle of Ottenbach parish preserved in the Staatsarchiv Zürich, but not yet transcribed and not on-line yet (this is done by volunteer work): However, neighboring Maschwanden has one transcribed to give you an idea what happened in the year 1670 there:
Stillstand Protokolle Example:
January:
saufen: too much alcohol drinking on Sundays
liecht stubeten: private (wild) parties of young people
ehrrüeriges reden: libel (one of the main subjects at local courts)
February:
kartind, büetzind, anckind, bachind: preaching against card playing, mending, butter making, baking on Sundays
Some people were imprisoned in the Ottenbach prison in the City of Zurich for major offenses ... this used to be a female monastery near Niederdorf South of the Limmat river, but 1525 made into a prison by the Zwingli protestant reformation, today the Zurich police station!