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| 30 Years War |
Joss is one of the earliest Scholl's we have records for. The documents we have access to on Graben in FS do not go back to 1610. Many parish records prior to 1648 were lost because of the
Thirty Years' War (1618-1648). This is why the parish
register in Graben begins in December 1645 and explains why you don't
find any earlier records in Graben. Joss's birth date is based on when Joss married and began having children. FS has his marriage date for Barbara Dieterich as 1636. That is probably wrong since Hans Matthias was born that year and we know he was Joss and Barbara's son. Joss lived in Graben during the 30
years war. In spite of this he married Barbara, and may have had four
children and lived about 52 years.
Is there proof of Joss and Barbara having children?
Proof 1: In 1658 Barbara Scholl and her son Hans Matthias Scholl are mentioned as baptismal sponsors to Hans Adam Heil born 22 Sep 1658. Adam's parents are Hans Conrad Heil and his wife Jacobe Cammerer. Hans Matthias Scholl is 22 years old at the date of this document. He will marry about 1662 or four years hence.
Proof 2: On 27 January 1665 a child, Hanß Jacob was born to parents: Hanß Conrad Heil, and his wife Jacobe Cammerer. The baptismal sponsors are: Adam Rausch together with wife; Barbara Schollin, widow; Hanß Andreß Scholl. Barbara
Scholl, wife of Joss Scholl is still living at this date however Joss died in 1662
so he is not listed. This is perfect evidence that Joss Scholl is
the father of Hans Andreas Scholl. Hans Andreas Endris Scholl is 26 years old at this date. It was about this time he married Anna Margretha Hosin and they began their family
Who are the friends of Barbara and Joss Scholl, namely Johann Conrad Heil and Anna Jacobea Cammerer?
Johann
Conrad Heil was born about 1626 to unknown parents. He married Anna
Jacobea Cammerer about 1657 and they had four children. (marriage date based on birth of first child)
1. Hans Adam Heil 1658-dec
2. Jacob Martin Heil 1663-1734 married Susanna (1670-1746) about 1693 and had 8 children
3. Johann Jacob Heil 1665-1674 lived 9 years
4. Johann Simon Heil 1670-1736 married Anna Maria Muenck 8 Jan 1695. They had 4 children.
Note: Johann Conrad Heil is related to us through Hans Weidmann b 1601. Conrad died 8 Oct 1673 at age 47. Anna Jacobea Cammerer died 9 Sep 1689 at age 57.
Did Joss and Barbara Scholl act as baptismal sponsors themselves?
1. Joss is mentioned as a baptismal sponsor in 1654: The young daughter baptized, these are the witnesses; Anna Margaretha
Scholl, Joss Scholl. Hans Michael possible, Joss Scholl his brother of
the parents, (in French) 27 February 1654 (Graben Record, very difficult if not impossibler to read)
2.Joss Scholl and his wife are mentioned as sponsors to the birth of Margaretha Barbara Benz 10 May 1656. Margaretha's parents are Jacob Benz and wife Maria.
3. Joss and his wife are mentioned as baptismal sponsors to Catharina Barbara Wahrer 24 August 1656. Catharina's parents are Christoph Wahrer and wife Anna Barbara.
4. Joss and his wife are mentioned as baptismal sponsors to Anna Barbara Wahrer 8 Sep 1659. Anna Barbara's parents are Christoph Wahere and wife Anna Barbara. Anna Barbara: FS ID KJJJ-Q28
Who were Joss and Barbara' friends, namely Christoph Wahrer and his wife Anna Barbara?
Christoph
Wahrer was born in 1605 in Graben. He married Anna Barbara Guth about
1655 and they had four children. She died in 1663 and he remarried
Apollonia Wahrer who died in 1673. Christoph's FS ID: LZ57-3XC. Christoph
was around the same age as Joss and he lived during the terrible 30
Years War. He died at 87 in Graben where he is buried. On the 11th of February in the year
1692, Christoph Wahrer blissfully fell asleep, citizen and of the court
in Graben, who the next day was honestly buried; he lived approximately
87 years. What does Joss's death record tell us?
Fortunately we do have Joss' death record which says: 16 Nov 1662 Joss Scholl, Bürger (citizen) and Gerichtsverwandter (court related) and Bürgermeister (mayor) (The entry does not give his age at death). It is of note that Christoph Wahrer worked in the same court as Joss Scholl.
What was life like for Joss Scholl?
Joss lived about 52 years. He lived during the entire 30 Years War. The Thirty Years’ War was one of the most
destructive conflicts in European history. The land was ravaged; homes,
churches, and crops were destroyed. In Baden, where Joss lived, one-half of all the buildings were razed, with its population forced to live in caves. Famine
and disease followed the devastation and nearly one-third of the
population of Germany died. In the Palatinate which is adjacent to Baden, it is estimated that only
50,000 of the original one million inhabitants survived. Graben's population went from 145 citizens in 1622 when Joss was about 10 years old to 42 citizens when he was 43 years old. Horses went from 345 in 1622 to 42 in 1653. Because the land around Graben was flat the troops were easily able to ravage the area and take what they wanted.
Who are Joss's parents?
Did Joss have a brother?
Leonard Scholl's death record (seen below) in 1683 says he was a Twisted Weaver and that he was 65 years old at time of death. That has him born in 1618 which makes him a candidate to be Joss's brother. A year after Leonard's death a woman named Magdalena Julia Jilig died. She died 18th of August 1864. In her death record it says she was married to a Leonard Scholl and that she married a weaver. They could easily be husband and wife.Wife:
Barbara Dieterich, 1618-1661, Joss's wife lived to be 70, dying 23 years after Joss. Joss Scholl is recorded as Barbara's husband in her death record.
Possible Children:
Peter Scholl 1632 - 1669+ who has four children, could be Joss's child. Barbara is 18 years old. No document with Joss's name.
Wilhelm Scholl 1633 - 1669 Barbara married at 19
Hans Matth Scholl 1636-1682, had a wife and family, see Barbara Dietrich and her son Hans Matthiass Scholl as co-baptismal sponsors on Barbara's page. This was a huge find.
Hans Andreas Endris Scholl 1639-1691, had a wife and family, no document with Joss's name
Hans Leonard Scholl 1652-1732, lived to be 80, no document with Joss's name
Other records:
Margaretha Scholl 1654, Joss's named as a witness in Margaretha's document. The document is incomplete, and difficult if not impossible to read and does not prove a relationship with Joss, merely he was a witness or sponsor.
Bürgers
In Germany there are nobility, Bürgers, and common folks. Bürgers are legally recognized inhabitants of a city or a state. In other words they are members of the middle class. These citizens are usually richer and/or more influential than a peasant/worker/day laborer but poorer and/or less influential than a nobleman. If you are not Bürger (citizen) of a village (community) then you are second class resident, no right to vote, no right to get elected to an official job, no privileges at all. To become a citizen (citoyen) you have to invest money (considerable buy-in fee), in other words rich people even foreigners are welcome. They can buy a house, a taverne (restaurant), a mill, a bakery (and even marry the baker's daughter). (from Peter Bertschinger)
Graben Teachers during Joss's lifetime
1657 Hans Georg Rausch; bittet um Gntrichtung
16 jährigen Befoldungsrüdftandes (Appointment of auditors)
1663 Hans Martin Milig
1861 Georg Heinrich Curtus (Gurtig)
Graben Sheriff or Mayors during Joss's lifetime:
1588 Mathis Süss
1614 Kaspar Hach
1632 Christoph Munk (Munckh)
Graben Pastors during Joss's lifetime:
1571-1630 Johann Ettstein or Johann Jetzstein
1630-1642 Mathias Miller von Augsburg (Augsburg, Bavaria is one of Germany’s oldest cities. The varied architecture in its center includes medieval guild houses, the 11th-century St. Mary's cathedral and the onion-domed Sankt Ulrich und Afra Abbey.) (Grabstein auf den Friedhof.) (Translation: Mathias's Gravestone in the Cemetery) Mathias Miller was born 1594 in Augsburg and died in Graben in 1632.
1642-1645 Johann Kratzer
1645-1650 Johann Jakob Zaysser von Hornberg (During the Thirty Years' War Hornburg was occupied by the Imperial field marshal Johann Tserclaes von Tilly in 1626, but conquered by Swedish troops in 1630. In 1645 the Swedish military Hans Christoff von Königsmarck finally had the castle destroyed.)
1650-1652 M Jonas Anwander
1652-1654 Augustin Langer von Bamberg (The witch trials of the 17th century claimed about one thousand victims in Bamberg, reaching a climax between 1626 and 1631, under the rule of Prince-Bishop Johann Georg II Fuchs von Dornheim. The famous Drudenhaus (witch prison), built in 1627, is no longer standing today.)
1654-1656 Ludwig Bach von Durlaw (Durlach) (Durlach was chosen by the margrave Charles II in 1565 as residence of the rulers of Baden-Durlach, and retained this distinction though it was almost totally destroyed by the French in 1689.)
1656-1663 Martin Luzius von Augsburg, (second Priest from here) (Augsburg, Bavaria is one of Germany’s oldest cities. The varied architecture in its center includes medieval guild houses, the 11th-century St. Mary's cathedral and the onion-domed Sankt Ulrich und Afra abbey.) (Grabstein auf den Friedhof.) (Translation: Mathias's Gravestone in the Cemetery) served with Augusta Vindel
During their lives:
The Thirty Years’ War and Peace of Westphalia: 1618-1648:
The Thirty Years’ War was one of the most destructive conflicts in European history. The land was ravaged; homes, churches, and crops were destroyed. In Baden, one-half of all the buildings were razed, with its population forced to live in caves. Famine and disease followed the devastation and nearly one-third of the population of Germany died. In the Palatinate, it is estimated that only 50,000 of the original one million inhabitants survived. Population shifts occurred. Swiss immigrants settled in the decimated areas of Baden and the Pfalz. Youth were encouraged to marry young in order to work the land and re-populate the country. The Peace of Westphalia officially ended the Thirty Years’ War. The Reformed Church (Calvinism) received legal status as a state religion. (FamilySearch)
The Thirty Years’ War was one of the most destructive conflicts in European history. The land was ravaged; homes, churches, and crops were destroyed. In Baden, one-half of all the buildings were razed, with its population forced to live in caves. Famine and disease followed the devastation and nearly one-third of the population of Germany died. In the Palatinate, it is estimated that only 50,000 of the original one million inhabitants survived. Population shifts occurred. Swiss immigrants settled in the decimated areas of Baden and the Pfalz. Youth were encouraged to marry young in order to work the land and re-populate the country. The Peace of Westphalia officially ended the Thirty Years’ War. The Reformed Church (Calvinism) received legal status as a state religion. (FamilySearch)
This area of Germany was fairly flat and was often a battlefield during the 30 Years War. The 30 Years War was between Catholics and Protestants and who would be in charge. After the millions of deaths, when the war ended not much changed in terms of who ruled Europe and in particular Germany. (Larry Jensen, genealogist)
Graben Cattle after the 30 Years War
All over the place, the stocktaking of losses was the order of the day. Schultheiss Munk drew up the following summary in 1653: Buildings have been burned and torn = 135, Vicarage and barn burned down. Change at the burgers, horses and livestock:
1622 1653
burgers (citizens) 145 42
horses 345 stock 62 stock
cattle 400 stock 71 stock.
(Graben by Konrad Dussel) Note: In contrast in Switzerland it was unusual for farmers to own horses. Sometimes they borrowed a horse from the military but it was unusual for Bürgers to own horses. As you can see the 30 Years war made life difficult.
Graben Castle 1600s
Graben Castle seems to have come through the war reasonably well,
because there is always the military demand as a quarters and finally the Jesuits when they served on the base. Afterwards, however, it was probably neglected. In 1666, however, it was restored to a habitable condition and fortified to such an extent that it was also habitable with...it offered protection. It could not really prove its worth with any of them; at the next it has already been destroyed. In 1661 Louis XIV took over the government in France. The foreign policy goal of the later "Sun King" was hegemony over Europe and the consolidation of the state in the northeast and east. The Rhine was to form the natural border of France. (Graben by Konrad Dussel)
Castle
We know next to nothing about the appearance of the building on the left bank of the Pfinz, which is often referred to as the "castle", and which only the names "Schloßstraße" and "Schloßplatz" remind us of today. It was probably a sober building, but it served its purpose well. (Graben Gemeinde Website)
Documents related to Joss Scholl:
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| Georg Scholl age 51 27 Dec 1640 Güglingen Brackenheim, Württemberg, birth 1589 film 1011835539 |
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| Herr Georg Scholl age 51 27 Dec 1640 Güglingen Brackenheim, Württemberg, birth 1589 film 1011835539 |
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| 11 Nov 1645 a Scholl witness film 102078348 page 14 |
[Ma]tthaeo Stober [and] _____? his wife.
On the 15th of November [1646] a little son was baptized and named Hanß Cun_?
Baptismal sponsors: Michael Zausch and Barbara his wife. Cunzes? Scholl and his wife.
Comment: The child's second name and Herr Scholl's first name may be: Cunz, which is a variant of the name Conrad. It can also be spelled: Kunz.
Notes: Because Joss was a mayor surely he knew this Conrad Scholl. Were they related? Probably. Do we have proof? Not yet. I have included this document because it is the earliest mentioning a Scholl in the Graben records.
Who is Robert Seal? Robert Foster Seal retired from the County of Los Angeles Public Library in 2011 after working in
academic and public libraries for over forty years. He lives in Pasadena, California, where he used to volunteer as a librarian at the local Family History Center. He is a member of the Ohio Genealogical Society, First Families of Ohio, the Society of Civil War Families of Ohio, the Belmont County, Monroe County, and Scioto County Chapters of the OGS, the Adams County, Ohio, Genealogical Society, and the Immigrant Genealogical Society.
academic and public libraries for over forty years. He lives in Pasadena, California, where he used to volunteer as a librarian at the local Family History Center. He is a member of the Ohio Genealogical Society, First Families of Ohio, the Society of Civil War Families of Ohio, the Belmont County, Monroe County, and Scioto County Chapters of the OGS, the Adams County, Ohio, Genealogical Society, and the Immigrant Genealogical Society.
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| The
young daughter baptized, these are the witnesses; Anna Margaretha
Scholl, Joss Scholl. Hans Michael possible, Joss Scholl his brother of
the parents, (in French) 27 February 1654 Graben Record, film 4137289 page 203 or 102078348 p 145 |
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| Graben Record, film 4137289 page 203 film 102078348 page 145 |
The young daughter baptized, these are the witnesses; Anna Margaretha
Scholl, Joss Scholl. Hans Michael possible, Joss Scholl his brother of
the parents, (in French) 27 February 1654 (Graben Record)
Notes: The young daughter baptized, these are the witnesses; Anna Margaretha
Scholl, Joss Scholl. Hans Michael possible, Joss Scholl his brother of
the parents, (in French) 27 February 1654
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| 1654 Graben Record film 4137289 page 203 earliest record found for Graben, Karlsruhe, Germany. |
It appears Graben Pastor Augustin Langer von (from) Bamberg who served in Graben from 1652-1654 filled out her birth record. Margaretha's entry in February 1654 on the right has handwriting much different than Ludwig Bach's 1654 May to December entries on the left. Apparently this church book was falling apart before it was photographed and some kind soul took the loose page on the right and placed it in the book (out of order) so it could be photographed. We are happy they did so.
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| Joss Scholl bap. spon 10 May 1656 film 994137289 page 208 |
Translation by Robert Seal
10 May 1656 was christened Margaretha Barbara, daughter of Jacob Benz and wife Maria
Baptismal sponsors: are Hanss Michel Deiploff/Deisloff? (you are probably familiar with that surname) and wife and Joss Scholl and his wife
10 May 1656 was christened Margaretha Barbara, daughter of Jacob Benz and wife Maria
Baptismal sponsors: are Hanss Michel Deiploff/Deisloff? (you are probably familiar with that surname) and wife and Joss Scholl and his wife
Note: FS has nothing on this couple beyond this document.
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| Catharina Bar Warer bap 24 Aug 1656, f Christoph Warer, m Anna Barb film 102078348 page 146 |
Date: 24 August [1656].
Child: Catharina Barbara.
Parents: Christoph Wahrer and his wife Anna Barbara.
Baptismal sponsors: Jonaß Kammerer and his wife. Joß Scholl and his wife
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| Joss Scholl bap sponsor 4 Dec 1657 film 004137289 page 209 |
Date: 4 December [1657].
Child: Anna.
Parents: Christoff Wahrer and his wife Anna Barbara.
Baptismal sponsors: Jonaß Kammerer and his wife. Joß Scholl and his wife.
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| Joss Scholl spon. 8 Sep 1659 film 004137289 page 210 |
Date: 8 September [1659].
Child: Anna Barbara. + [died]
Parents: Christoff Wahrer and wife Anna Barbara.
Baptismal sponsors: Jonaß Kam(m)erer and wife. Joß Scholl and wife.
Who was Christoph Wahrer? Christoph Wahrer was born in 1605 in Graben. He married Anna Barbara Guth about 1655 and they had four children. She died in 1663 and he remarried Apollonia Wahrer who died in 1673. Christoph's ID LZ57-3XC. Christoph was around the same age as Joss and he lived during the terrible 30 Years War. He died at 87 in Graben where he is buried. (see death record below)
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| Joss Scholl death 16 Mar 1662 film 102078348 page 189 |
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| Joss Scholl death 16 Mar 1662 film 102078348 page 189 2 |
16 Nov 1662 Joss Scholl, Bürger (citizen) and Gerichtsverwandter (court related) and Bürgermeister (mayor) (The entry does not give his age at death)
Graben Pastor Martin Luzius, who served between 1656-1663, was the Pfarrer who filled out Joss’s Kirche death record. He also designated the spot Joss was buried and may have said a prayer over Joss’s remains and rung the bells.
Re-translation by Robert Seal
The 3rd and 4th words in the second line appear to be: Bürger Meister = Bürgermeister = mayor.
The 6th and 7th words in the second line might be "Schul(l) Meister" = Schulmeister = school master. (I strongly emphasize the word "might" here.)
See below:
d: 16 Mart. starb Joß Scholl Bürger und Gerichts-
verwandter __ Bürger Meister u. Schul(l)? Meister?
___ _____ s. Alters ist den folgenden
Tag christl.?___ nach zur Erde bestattet worden
Translation by Ulrich Neitzel:
Hello Kent, This death record is for Joss Scholl. I understand that it is very important to you, because it is one of the earliest documents of the Scholl's in Graben. Unfortunately it is very difficult to decipher. I'll start with an incomplete transcription; maybe other community members can fill in missing parts:
d: 16 Mart. starb Joß Scholl Bürger und Gerichts-
verwandter __ _ u. ____
___ _____ s. Alters ist den folgenden
Tag christl.?___ nach zur Erde bestattet worden
The basic facts are clear: Joss Scholl, citizen and juryman, died 16 March [1662] and was buried the day after following Christian customs. The unclear passages may include additional important information. Also there is a note in the left margin under the date which I can't read.
Robert Seal:@Ulrich Neitzel did a great job of transcribing and translating a very challenging record. Well done, Ulrich! I agree with Ulrich that Joss's first occupation is: Gerichtsverwandter.The third and fourth words of the second line might be: Bürger meister. I do not see the word "Wachtmeister" in this record.
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| Anna Barbara Waherer death age 30 10 Jan 1663 Greben birth 1633 film 102078348 page 189 |
On the 10th? of January [1663], Anna Barbara died, legitimate wife of
Christoff Wahrer, citizen here, 30 years old, who on the 3? [maybe 13?]
of the same month was buried according to Christian custom.
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| Christoph Wahrer age 87 death 11 Feb 1692 Graben film 102078348 page 204 |
On the 11th of February in the year 1692, Christoph Wahrer blissfully fell asleep, citizen and of the court in Graben, who the next day was honestly buried; he lived approximately 87 years.
An engraving by the French engraver van Loon around 1650, about the size of a postcard, shows a Graben in the same style with Bruchsal and Speye.
This map was made by the French in 1659, sixteen years before the Graben Castle was destroyed. It seems that the Castle must have been quite big compared with others in Weingarten or Philippsburg. Other villages around Graben don't have such a symbol. so we know that Graben was a rather important place...the river Pfinz was the border between Graben and Neudorf.
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| A cross like this was most likely placed over Joss's grave. |
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| Earliest Graben Title Page 1645 film 004137289 page 206 |
This is the title page for the collection of the oldest church records of Graben. It says: Oldest church book of Graben contains in loose sheets
I. Baptismal book from 1645 - 1704
II. Marriage book from 1692 - 1708
III. Death book from 1658 - 1696
IV. 2 sheets of notes
II. Church book ___? 1704-1738
Contains:
Baptized from March 1704 until 1738.
Married 1704 to 1738
Deceased 1709 to 1738
Why do Graben records stop at 1647?
Robert Seal says: Many parish records prior to 1648 were lost because of the Thirty Years' War (1618-1648). This is possibly why this oldest parish register in Graben begins in December 1645 and explains why you don't find any earlier records in Graben.
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| Earliest Graben Doc 1645 film 004137289 page 206 |