Ludwig was born in Ottenbach 13 February 1610 to Katharina Kleiner and Johannes Sidler. Ludwig was their third child. When Ludwig Sidler was born his father, Johannes Sidler, was 26 and his mother, Katharina Kleiner, was 22 in Ottenbach, Zürich, Switzerland. His first marriage was to Elsbeth Schneewlin Or Schneebeli about 1614. Searched and no marital record found. They were the parents of 3 sons and 8 daughters. Their last child, Anna, was born in 1660 and Elsbeth Schneebeli died five years later on 12 April 1665. Nine years later, Ludwig married Verena Grob on 28 Apr 1674. Ludwig died on 11 January 1688, in Ottenbach, at the age of 77. He lived to be 77 years 11 months and 29 days. That is a long life when the average was around 60 years.Ludwig FS ID: LH7N-87W
SCHNEWLI. A fairly common Alemannic surname in the Middle Ages, which developed into a hereditary surname in various places. Oldest forms: Snewli, Snewelin, later Schnewli, Schnewelin, Schneli, Schneuwli, Schnebli, Schneebeli. The Schnewelin noble family in Fribourg i.Br., which flourished in many lines, had many connections with Switzerland and died out in the 19th century with Baron Schnebelin Bernlapp von Bollschweil.
Coat of arms: divided by gold and green
(Source: Zurich Roll of Arms)
- Knight Hans Schnewli von Landegg fell on the Swiss side at Murten in 1476 (tomb in the choir of Bern Cathedral).
- In Switzerland, the name had significance in Basel, Bern, Fribourg, Glarus, Stein am Rhein and Zurich.
Links: I have come across this spelling quite a few times - there is even a publication "Die Schnewli von Affoltern a.A.".
A line from there even became citizens of St.Gallen in 1882.
I had quoted Historisch-Biographisches Lexikon der Schweiz on spelling variations.
1609. Joshua Kessler, Dean of the Chapter since 1618. Died 1636.
1636. Hans Kaspar Müller. Dean since 1642. A new rectory was built under him. (This is shown in the first part of our parish register. According to Wiesendanger soil Reverend Muller, the priest embezzled the property of the parish and left it to his heirs to pay for the damage. Pastor Muller also came into conflict with the Ottenbach innkeeper when he set up a wine tavern in the vicarage)
1656. Hans Jakob Heiz. But he died before he started in Ottenbach.
1656. Hans Ulrich Wiesendanger. Dean since 1668. Died 1677.
1677. Hans Kaspar Huber. Dean 1684. When he was employed in Kappel, he suffered a stroke, the consequences of which he soon died.
During their lives:
1640 In Ottenbach there are 52 adults, 42 single, 319 inhabitants, 6.1 per household or 52 homes in the community. (Ottenbach Told by Bernard Schnider and Salomon Schneider and Erika Schmid)
1689 - 1694 Hunger crisis leads to large population losses
1689 - 1694 Hunger crisis leads to large population losses
1661 Construction of the first Ottenbach schoolhouse
1645 - 1647 Construction of a mill wheel on the Reuss river
1638 Construction of the Ottenbach rectory. (Ottenbach Municipality Website)
Ludwig and Elsbeth Schneebeli with whom he had 11 children:
Kinder:17.02.1639 Eva, oo 14.04.1657 Melchior Bär
03.05.1640 Anna
05.06.1642 Joss
15.05.1643 Joss
25.01.1646 Kli Anna, oo 08.02.1670 Hans Häberling, + 29.08.1674
03.06.1648 Barbara
03.01.1650 Heinrich
25.04.1652 Verena, oo 17.11.1675 Hans Boll, + 03.10.1709
17.08.1654 Barbara, oo 16.09.1688(?)
25.04.1652 Verena, oo 17.11.1675 Hans Boll, + 03.10.1709
17.08.1654 Barbara, oo 16.09.1688(?)
28.03.1658 Elsbeth, oo 22.01.1678 Hans Schneebeli, + 20.02.1694
20.05.1660 Anna
Documents related to Ludwig Sidler:
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| Ludwig Sidler birth 13 February 1610 film, 8014328 page 78 |
(Thursday) 13. Febr(uar) [1610]
E(ltern): Hans Sÿdler, Cathrin Kleinerin
K(ind): Ludwig
Z(eugen): Ludwig Häberlig (Häberling), Margraeth Sigerstin (Sigrist)
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Billeter temple book page 7 |
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| Billeter Temple book page 13 |
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| Billeter Temple book page 20 |
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| Billeter Temple book page 21 |
Hans Jakob Sidler, ≈ 12.12.1650, Sohn von Hans Jakob, genannt "Steheli", Dreher, + 1730
Barbara Sidler, ≈ 17.08.1654, Tochter von Ludwig, + 16.09.1688
Kinder:
14.03.1676 Jakob, + 22.04.1676
07.07.1678 Hans Jakob, oo 16.12.1701 Margaretha Hegetschweiler, + 10.12.1749 (=16)
03.10.1680 Rudolf, ooI 11.01.1707 Regula Bär, ooII 25.05.1734 Anna Grob + 05.12.1740
23.11.1684 Barbara, + 06.02.1692
Hans Jakob Sidler (1650-1730)
Barbara Gut, ≈ 25.12.1660, + 06.04.1721
Kinder:
19.01.1690 Hans, + 19.08.1735
26.11.1693 Elsbetha
30.08.1696 Hans Peter, ooI 18.11.1721 Anna Buchmann, ooII 25.04.1730 Barbara Suter, + 18.03.1749
The following may be helpful in reading church census'.
Wolf: Re Bevölkerungsverzeichnis 1678: structure depended to some extent on the pastor writing it up - and also changed with time.
I just had a look at Bevölkerungsverzeichnisse 1670: there (in the titel page) it explicitely states Haushaltungen = households.
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| 1679 Bevölkerungsverzeichnisse religious abbreviations Film 007765846 page 380 |
Nota. (transcription)
Explicatio numerorum et abbreviaturarum per totum Catalogum observanda.
Numerus parentibus praefixus denotat familias in quovis page.Numerus liberis in medio praefixus indicat annos aetatis eorum.Abbreviatturae postpositae innuunt scientiam ipsorum Catecheticam hoc modo notatam.
… Tenent et recitant …
Explanation of the numbers and abbreviations to be observed throughout the catalogue.
A number in front of the parents identifies the families on each page.
The number preceding the children in the centre indicates their age.
The following abbreviations indicate their catechetical knowledge labelled in this way.
... They understand and recite ...
Or.Do. >>> Orationem Dominicam (Sunday Prayer)
Symb. >>> Symbolum Apostolicum (Confession of faith)
Deca. >>> Decalogum (The Ten Commandments)
C.M.int. >>> Catechismum majorem integrum (Complete Large Catechism)
Q.CM.C. >>> Quaestiones Catechismi majoris ascriptas (Questions about the Large Catechism)
Testi. >>> Testimoniae Scripturaer Sacrae (The testimony of the Holy Scriptures)
Fr.int. >>> Fragmentae usquae ad Deca. Symb. Or.Do. (Fragments of the Ten Commandments, Confession of faith and Sunday Prayer)
Commu. >>> Communicantes coelibes ante S. [….] examinandi (Unmarried communicants prior to the ... exam)
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| Ludwig Sidler and Elsbeth Schneebeli 1649 Bevölkerungsverzeichnissefilm 8126304 page 140, more information: Pastors |
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| 1665 Elisabeth Schneebeli burial 12 Apr film 008014328 page 369 |
den 12ten Aprel [1665]
Elßbeth Schneewlin, Rudi Sÿdlers allhir eh(e)fr(ou)w
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| Ludwig Sidler widower 1670 Bevölkerungsverzeichnisse film 7765846 page 382 |
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| 1674 Ludwig Sidler's 2nd marriage to Verena Grob 28 April Ottenbach film 008014328 page 350 |
Unfortunately the marriage entry doesn't tell us much, just that she was from Ottenbach:
Den 28ten Aprell [1674]
Ludi Sÿdler vnd Verena Grobin, Beide allhir
Note: According to the Bevölkerungsverzeichnis she was born in Nov. 1612 - no exact date: this could be an indication that she was not baptised in Ottenbach - or no exact date given then? I would expect her baptism (if in Ottenbach) on film 008014328 page 80: you may want to check this.
Note: Grob were spread all over canton Zürich - she could have been from somewhere else, just moving to Ottenbach prior to her marriage with Ludi Sidler - although Ottenbach was one of the places of citizenship for Grob as well.
Note: Verena could have been a widow - that Ludi was a widower is not mentioned 1674 either. EDB finds two marriages of a Verena Grob in Ottenbach - 1661 and 1665 - would be rather late for a woman born 1612, at least for a first marriage. But on 17.03.1635 a Verena Grob married in Maschwanden, … however, without further info this is mere speculation and should not be followed up - I guess we have to accept this.
Wolf:
Unfortunately the marriage entry doesn't tell us much, just that she was from Ottenbach:
Den 28ten Aprell [1674]
Ludi Sÿdler vnd Verena Grobin, Beide allhir
Note: According to the Bevölkerungsverzeichnis she was born in Nov. 1612 - no exact date: this could be an indication that she was not baptised in Ottenbach - or no exact date given then? I would expect her baptism (if in Ottenbach) on film 008014328 page 80: you may want to check this.
Note: Grob were spread all over canton Zürich - she could have been from somewhere else, just moving to Ottenbach prior to her marriage with Ludi Sidler - although Ottenbach was one of the places of citizenship for Grob as well.
Note: Verena could have been a widow - that Ludi was a widower is not mentioned 1674 either. EDB finds two marriages of a Verena Grob in Ottenbach - 1661 and 1665 - would be rather late for a woman born 1612, at least for a first marriage. But on 17.03.1635 a Verena Grob married in Maschwanden, … however, without further info this is mere speculation and should not be followed up - I guess we have to accept this.
So we know she was still alive around 1682. There is another Bevölkerungsverzeichnis 1689 - by then Ludwig had died - if she was still alive then, she should be mentioned, possibly together with the family of one of her stepdaughters (as none of her stepsons seems to have been married).
Den 28ten Aprell [1674]
Ludi Sÿdler vnd Verena Grobin, Beide allhir
Note: According to the Bevölkerungsverzeichnis she was born in Nov. 1612 - no exact date: this could be an indication that she was not baptised in Ottenbach - or no exact date given then? I would expect her baptism (if in Ottenbach) on film 008014328 page 80: you may want to check this.
Note: Grob were spread all over canton Zürich - she could have been from somewhere else, just moving to Ottenbach prior to her marriage with Ludi Sidler - although Ottenbach was one of the places of citizenship for Grob as well.
Note: Verena could have been a widow - that Ludi was a widower is not mentioned 1674 either. EDB finds two marriages of a Verena Grob in Ottenbach - 1661 and 1665 - would be rather late for a woman born 1612, at least for a first marriage. But on 17.03.1635 a Verena Grob married in Maschwanden, … however, without further info this is mere speculation and should not be followed up - I guess we have to accept this.
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| Ludwig b 1610, Hans b 1606, Jakob b1608 and Rudolf b 1635 in the 1678 Ottenbach Bevölkerungsverzeichnisse film 8126303 page 467 |
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| 1682 Ludwig and Verena Grob daughter Barbara 1654 Ottenbach Bevölkerungsverzeichnisse film 008126301 page 735 |
Unfortunately the marriage entry doesn't tell us much, just that she was from Ottenbach:
Den 28ten Aprell [1674]
Ludi Sÿdler vnd Verena Grobin, Beide allhir
Note: According to the Bevölkerungsverzeichnis she was born in Nov. 1612 - no exact date: this could be an indication that she was not baptised in Ottenbach - or no exact date given then? I would expect her baptism (if in Ottenbach) on film 008014328 page 80: you may want to check this.
Note: Grob were spread all over canton Zürich - she could have been from somewhere else, just moving to Ottenbach prior to her marriage with Ludi Sidler - although Ottenbach was one of the places of citizenship for Grob as well.
Note: Verena could have been a widow - that Ludi was a widower is not mentioned 1674 either. EDB finds two marriages of a Verena Grob in Ottenbach - 1661 and 1665 - would be rather late for a woman born 1612, at least for a first marriage. But on 17.03.1635 a Verena Grob married in Maschwanden, … however, without further info this is mere speculation and should not be followed up - I guess we have to accept this.
Kent: This document and the previous Bevölkerungsverzeichnisse are the only documents I have found that give the birth year for Verena Grob. We know almost nothing about her.
Wolf: In both documents it says Im 9br (November) 1612 - i.e. just the month is given, no exact date.So we know she was still alive around 1682. There is another Bevölkerungsverzeichnis 1689 - by then Ludwig had died - if she was still alive then, she should be mentioned, possibly together with the family of one of her stepdaughters (as none of her stepsons seems to have been married).
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| Ludwig Sidler death 11 January 1688 film 8014328 page 382 |
den 11. Jenner [1688]
Ludi Seidler v(on) Otenbach alhir.
The following are three documents which may give a hint as to the possible first marriage of Verena Grob:
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| 1635 Marriage 17 Maschwanden Verena Grob |
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| 1661 Verena Grob marriage Ottenbach 18 June film 008014328 page 347 |
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| 1665 Verena Grob. marriage to Heinrich Bichel Ottenbach film 008014328 page 348 |