GatheringGardiners: Margaretha Grob 1638

Margaretha was born in 15 July 1638 to Heinrich Grob a miller in Ottenbach. Her mother was Barbara Saltzmann. No doubt Margaretha grew up knowing a lot about how wheat and barley are ground. In fact she most likely worked in the mill.

Hans Rudolf Sidler married Margaretha Grob, in 1662 when Hans was 27 years old and Margaretha was 25. They had eleven children. 5 didn't grow to adulthood. Margaretha died in Ottenbach in 1683 at 46 years old. When she died her oldest son was 20 and her youngest was three. This left the raising of the children to the second wife Jlli. Margaretha Jlli served as the stepmother for 9 years 1 month 27 days and then she died leaving Hans Rudolf to finish raising the children.

What happened to their children?

Heinrich Sidler 1663-1731 had three wives and each wife had two children, death date is unknown, he was a Wagner

Jakob Sidler 1665-1741 was born 1665. when he was 25 he married Verena Haberling from Bickwil who was 5 years younger, was a Seckelmeister or cashier in Ottenbach, had 7 children, Verena lived to be 58 dying in 1728, Jakob died in 1741 at almost 76 years old, he lived alone for 13 years.

Anna Sidler 1666-1728 married Marx Frey, had 8 children, large posterity, lived 62 years 1 month 4 days
Vronegg Sidler 1668-1669 deceased at 1
Melchior Sidler 1670- married Barbara Frey, had 8 children, 1 married Barbara died 10 days after delivering her last child, his exact death date unknown

Jakob Sidler 1671-1672 died at 1
Anna Sidler 1673-1738 married Ulrich Frey, 5 children, lived 64 years 5 months 17 days
Vronegg Sidler 1675-1676 died at 1
Heinrich Sidler 1677-1678 died at 1
Heinrich Sidler 1678-1683 died at 4
Joss Sidler 1680- died as infant

Second wife:Margaretha Jlli 1687-1692 Hans Rudolf's second wife, unknown birth date, from Haptikon, had one child Marx below, died 1692, unknown years alive
Marx Sidler 1690 died as infant.

Documents related to Margaretha Grob:

Barbara Salzmann Margareth's Grob's mother who is born 19 February 1604
in Mashwanden, Zürich Switzerland, Mashwanden is 3.5 miles south of
Ottenbach, film 8125638 page 14 first entry

Wolf:
MDCIV - 19. Febru. [1604]
Kinder: Barbel
Parents: Jacob Salzmann / Anna Sutterin
Witness: Ludwig Kleiner von Cußen(?) /

Barbel Gründelerin Klin Jaglis frouw
Klin Jagli = Kleinjakob (similar to Kleinhans)

Wolf: As I said - same as with "Kleinhans" - the younger Hans / Jakob
Cußen(?) - I am not sure about this - hence the (?). There is a hamlet Kusen in Küsnacht - a possibility.

Kusen: Former independent village, today a district of Küsnacht near the bath between Goldbach and Küsnachter Horn. Several archaeological. Finds on the municipal territory, including a neolith. Lakeside settlement at the Hörnli and remains of a Roman period. Gutshofes in the area of Rehweid (e-HLS). The lack of evidence at Leu and Weber suggests that Kusen was already in the 18th century. It was no longer perceived as an independent settlement. 2]

Kusen

Kussen is near Kusnacht

Bevölkerungsverzeichnis 1634

1634 leben in Ottenbach die Brüder Hans Heinrich, der Müller, und Joß (Joseph?), Söhne des Felix Grob [§] aus Knonau. 1640 wird zusätzlich die Schwester Margreth aufgeführt. 1643 wird ein weiterer Sohn Hanß genannt - der aber altersmässig eher zum Sohn des Heinrich passt, der 1643 unter dessen Kindern nicht mehr aufgeführt wird.
Translation:Felix is from Knonau - likely the father of
Joß Grob / Vreni Salzman (Joss FSID K4G4-J5X)
>> Joß 7 (* abt. 1627) / Margreth 4 (* abt. 1630) / Hans 1 (* abt. 1633)
Hans Heinrich Grob / Barbel Salzman
>> Vreni 3 (* abt. 1631) / Barbel 1 (* abt. 1633)

Kent:

Apparently Heinrich has a brother who married Barbara's sister. They are all living in Ottenbach.

Hans Heinrich Grob and Barbara Salzmann have two children,

1. Verena age 3 and

2. Barbara age 1.

The other couple Joss Grob and Verena Salzmann have three children

1. Joss age 7,

2. Margaret age 4 and

3. Hans age 1.

Felix: Also living with them is Felix an anonymous, boarder and possibly the grandfather or another relative. Am 14.09.1606 heiraten in Maschwanden ein Felix Grob und Elisabeth Blüni, Kleinhansen Tochter: das würde vom Heiratsort her passen - allerdings nicht dazu, dass ein Sohn bereits 1619 heiratet

Note: The last column tells who answered the catechism's 10 questions

Note: The age given for Verena, daughter of Hans Heinrich, in 1634 is obviously a typographical error.

Margaretha Grob birth 15 July 1638 film 8014328 page 132

Kent:

15 July 1638, Maschwanden

Parents Heinrich Grob miller, Barbara Salzmann

Child: Margaretha

1640 Ottenbach census: Heinrich Grob and Barbara
Salzmann with Margaretha film 8014135 page 369 entry 15

Wolf:

It is possibly due to the fact that the “official” year of the population register does not necessarily correspond to the year of the census that Margreth (*1638) does not yet appear in the 1640 register. She marries Hans Rudolf Sidler on 28.10.1662 in Ottenbach.

Wolf:

Bevölkerungsverzeichnis 1640
Heinrich Grob der Müller / Barbara Saltzmannin
Joß sein Bruder ist in der Müllj zu Affholteren
Margreth soror (sister) 16 (* abt. 1624)
The children are most likely belonging to Heinrich and Barbara Salzmann:
Verena 15 (* abt. 1626) parents married 04.08.1626
Barbara 7 (* abt. 1633) / Hanß 5 (* abt. 1636) / Elselj 3 (* abt. 1637)
Ages of Vreni/Verena don't agree.
Why is Margreth (* 15.07.1638) missing? It is known that the year given for the document is not necessarily the exact year of data collection - checking the 1643 list might help.

Second Translation:

Heinrich Grob a miller and Barbara Salzmann have Joss (sein bruder in der ) or (Heinrich) has Joss a brother who is a miller in Affoltern.

Heinirch's older children are

Margaretha, has passed catechism and is 16, and his kinder or children

Verena who passed catechism and is 15 and

Barbara age 7 Younger children of the couple are

Hans 5 and

Elisabeth 3. They are minors.

1643 BV Ottenbach Heinrich Grob and Barbara Saltzmannin
film 008126307 page 350

Wolf:

Joß is then resident in the Affoltern mill in 1640 - his family is no longer listed with details. In 1643, his son of the same name is mentioned again in Ottenbach - was he apprenticed to his uncle? In 1647 he is mentioned as a young miller with his wife and daughter