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| Affoltern Blazon |
When Elsbeth Schneebeli was born on November 28, 1713, in
Affoltern, Zürich, Switzerland, her father, Heinrich, was 30 and her mother, Elsbeth Schnebelin (born 1683) was 30. She is the second wife of Hans Caspar Sidler. They married on August 22, 1747, in
Ottenbach, Zürich, Switzerland. They had one child named Urich Sidler. Elsbeth died on August 5, 1765, in Ottenbach,
Zürich, Switzerland, at the age of 52 years 8 mo, 8 days according to the Ottenbach Pastor or 51 years 8 months 7 days according to an online age calculator. The Pastor at the time of her death was Hans Konrad Rahn. He served from 1707 to when he was deposed in 1737 for an offense. (In 1737 he was dismissed for adultery at the age of 73. Afterwards he moved to Horgen, where he died in 1744.).
Who is Elsbeth's mother?
Possibility 1: Elsbeth Schneebeli is the daughter of Heinrich Schneebeli and Katharina Dups. She
is the seventh of eight children. Source: FamilySearchPossibility 2: Heinrich married Elsbet Schnebelin and had Elsbeth Schneebeli in 1713. Heinrich married 1683, in Affoltern am Albis, Zürich, Switzerland. Elsbeth's grandfather is Rudolf Schnebelin and her mother is Anna Glaettli. Elsbeth Schnebelin married Heinrich Schnebli on 1 February 1707. They were the parents of Elsbeth born 1713.
Research:
- After looking at 1696 Heinrich Schneebeli/Catharina Dubs 6 October marriage -I find they did marry but I see no proof Catharina Dubs is Elsbeth's (b 1713) mother.
- In Catharina Dubs' burial record it lists Heinrich Schneebeli as her husband.
- Billeter lists Elsbeth Schneebeli as the second wife of Hans Caspar Sidler but Billiter put her son Ulrich b 1751 as the last child of Veronica Schneebeli, Caspar's first wife, 5 years after Vernoica's death. An obvious mistake.
- I think Ulrich b 20 June 1751. Parents: Rudolf Sidler mother: Anna Schneebeli. So he is not ours.
- The 1849 Bevölkerungsverzeichnis lists Elsbeth Schneebeli's birth as 28 November 1713. I found no other entries for her. That is a good document. See translation below..
- Based on Elsbeth's 1713 baptismal record I believe Heinrich Schnebeli Haffners / Elsbet Schnebelin are her parents. I have births for both - posted below. The "in" at the end of her name denotes female.
The Schneebeli family goes back eight generations in Affoltern, Zürich, CH. Affoltern is 3.7 miles east of Ottenbach. A bit of a walk when dating but date she did. Elsbeth Schneebeli is the second wife of Hans Kaspar Sidler born 1705. She bore one son with Kaspar Sidler whose name is Ulrich Sidler. Ulrich lived from 1751 to 1800. Elsbeth’s
son Ulrich married Verena Haberling in 1782 and they had two children: Ludwig
and Heinrich. Unfortunately Elsbeth didn't see her son's marriage or her
grandchildren. Elsbeth died in 1765. She lived a total of 54 years 8 months, 8 days according to her death record.
To pronounce Schneebeli you pronounce the initial e's as a long ē. (Sh-nē-belly)
Birth/Death
Julius Billeter has Elsbeth's birthdate as 1710, however when I went to that page no birth date was found. This was a puzzle because her siblings births were easily found. I then looked at her death record which says she lived 52 years. 1765 - 52 is 13, not 10. Then I looked at the 1713 birth records and easily found her name and birth date. Billeter was correct on the month and date, just not the year.
Julius Billeter has Elsbeth's birthdate as 1710, however when I went to that page no birth date was found. This was a puzzle because her siblings births were easily found. I then looked at her death record which says she lived 52 years. 1765 - 52 is 13, not 10. Then I looked at the 1713 birth records and easily found her name and birth date. Billeter was correct on the month and date, just not the year.
Elsbeth Schneebli (given name spelling from marriage certificate) died 5 August 1765 in Ottenbach. Her cause of death was Zehrender
Krankheit, e.g. Tuberkulose, where she lost a lot of weight, the term is no
longer used in medicine today. The far right column title is originally French
la faible = the weakness, her illness a bit strangely Germanized als Fäble. We
still today say: he / she has a faible meaning he likes to do
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| 1683 Heinrich Schneeebeli baptism Elsbeth's father, 15 Apr Parents: Heinrich/Anna Suter Affoltern am Albis film 008014299 page 381 |
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| 1683 Elsbeth Schnebelin baptism 20 November Father Rudi, mother Anna Glött Affoltern am Albis film 008014299 page 381 Elsbeth's mother's baptism |
1683 Elsbeth Schnebelin baptism 20 Nov Father Rudi, mother Anna Glött
1863 Den 20. 8.bris: Elsbeth
Rudj Schneblj / Anna Glëttli (Glättli): married 29.11.1681
Heinrich Bligenstorffer (Blickenstorfer) / Elsbeth Suterj
Note: As mentioned above - most likely Elsbeth's (*1713) mother.
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| 1668 Heinrich Schneebeli marriage 16 June to Anna Suteri Elsbeth's parents Affoltern am Albis film 008014295 page 464 |
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| 1707 Elsbet Schnebelin/Heinrich Schneebeli's marriage Elsbeth's parents 1 Feb Affoltern am Albis page 479 |
Marriage Schneebeli & Schneebeli 1707
A(nno) 1707, d(en) 1.t(en) Hornung eÿngesägnet (eingesegnet = consecrated)
Heinrich Eprecht Blaser ... (not our topic)
Heinrich Schnebeli Haffners vnd Elsbet Schnebelin Schmidhansen Rudi
Note: The nickname "Haffners" is certainly derived from the profession, i.e. implies that an ancestor (possibly several generations) were Hafner (potters).
Note: "Schmidhansen Rudi" is also identifying Elsbet's family line. Likely a Rudi (Rudolf) was her father - with the nickname "Schmidhansen" (which I cannot explain).
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| 1712 Heinrich Schneebeli Elsbet's brother baptism 19 Jan mother Elsbet Schnebelein Affoltern am Albis film 008014299 page 411 |
This gives us more info on the witness, again acting in this position in 1713:
In 1713 it just says "Stabhalter Winkelmann Müller" - no given name, just his profession (miller) and position (Stabhalter = presiding judge at the court).
In 1712 we learn his given name (Heinrich) and also "Fendrich des Freÿn Amts" (Fähnrich = ensign of the Freiamt district).
The other witness is Elsbeth Weiß des Küeffer Weißn Tochter (Elsbet the cooper's daughter).
This still leaves the problem of the correct baptismal entry for the daughter Elisabet:
28.11.1710 Affoltern (Billter) is not correct.
28.11.1712 (calculated from age at death) is not found in Affoltern.
28.11.1713 Affoltern doesn't fit this calculation - but then the pastor could have made a mistake.
Note: Schneebeli were also citizens of Ottenbach - a line originating from Affoltern: to check Ottenbach is therefore certainly worth while (Ottenbach not yet online from the State Archive)
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| 1713 Elsbeth Schneebeli birth 28 November Affoltern Am Abis page 415 |
Billeter says Elsbeth was born 1710 but the death record says she was 52 in 1765 which means she was actually born in 1713.
Wolf:
Elsbet's Baptismal entry:
1713 / den 28. Winterm(onat): Elisabet
Heinrich Schnebeli Haffners / Elsbet Schnebelin
I find the names of the witnesses difficult - so for the time being I will leave that alone - until we are sure this is the correct baptism. Heinrich Schnebeli "Haffners" (nickname) and Elsbet Schnebelin got married Affoltern 01.12.1707.
1713 / den 28. Winterm(onat): Elisabet
Heinrich Schnebeli Haffners / Elsbet Schnebelin
I find the names of the witnesses difficult - so for the time being I will leave that alone - until we are sure this is the correct baptism. Heinrich Schnebeli "Haffners" (nickname) and Elsbet Schnebelin got married Affoltern 01.12.1707.
Apparently Heinrich married Elsbet Schnebelin and had Elsbeth Schneebeli in 1713,
FS ID; Heinrich: LVC2-2RF Elsbet: K64Z-34N
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| 1745 Elsbeth Schnebelin burial 12 Affoltern am Albis page 569 |
1745 Elsbeth Schnebelin burial 12 December Affoltern am Albis
Abgestorbne des 1745-ten Jahrs
Xbr 12 te
Elsbeth Schnebeli, an aet. 62, Heinrich Schnebelis Hafners ehel. Hausfr(au).
Summary: +1741! Her husband was still alive when she died - and he was a Hafner or potter.
Not quite 😉.
Summary: I have shown that the two death records are not records of a married couple.
Heinrich (1741) is a shoemaker, not a potter - so he will not be Elisabeth's (*1713) father.
On the other hand, Elsbeth (+1745) was wife of Heinrich the potter - so most likely Elsbeth's (*1713) mother. Heinrich was still alive then. Elsbeth died 1745 aged 62 - so she will have been born around 1683 - fits your find. You'd have to find another death record for a Heinrich after 1745.
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| 1747 Hans Kaspar Sidler marriage to Elsbet Schneebeli 22 August 1747 film 8014328 page 579 Ottenbach |
Translation Wolf:
ANNUS MDCCXLVII (1747)Eodem [22. August]
Seckelmeister H. Caspar Sÿdler von Ottenbach
Elsbeth Schneebli von Affolteren
See also https://suche.staatsarchiv.djiktzh.ch/detail.aspx?ID=4406544
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| 1749 Ottenbach Church Census or Bevölkerungsverzeichnis E II 265,S, 137-223film 0008014124 page 91 Includes birth dates and religious learning progress of each family member living in 1749 |
Kent Translation of 1749 Ottenbach Bevölkerungsverzeichnis :
Hans Caspar Sidler b 29 March 1705. J. Com (partaken of the holy sacrament)
Elsbeth Schneebeli (stepmother) b 28 November 1703 J. Com (partaken of the holy sacrament)
Barbara b 19 Sep 1729 J. (Testi. Testimoniae Scripturaer Sacrae (The testimony of the Holy Scriptures)
Dorothea b 11 May 1732 J. (Testi. Testimoniae Scripturaer Sacrae (The testimony of the Holy Scriptures)
Anna b 7 Dec 1734 J. (Testi. Testimoniae Scripturaer Sacrae (The testimony of the Holy Scriptures)
Anna Barbara b 21 Oct 1736 J. (Testi. Testimoniae Scripturaer Sacrae (The testimony of the Holy Scriptures)
Rudolph b 1 April 1742 Symb (Symb. Symbolum Apostolicum (Confession of faith)
This document gives Elsbeth Schneebeli's birth date.
Note: The Ottenbach Pastor in 1749 was Balthasar Zwingli, son of Hans Heinrich Zwingli. The greatest, most handsome man among all his brothers in office. In 1753 almost all of Ottenbach burned down. The pastor fell ill, had epilepsy (apoplectic) coincidences. He never went to the pulpit again, and died in 1757.
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| 1751 Ulrich Sidler father Rudolf Sidler mother Anna Schneebeli 20 Jun Ottenbach film 008014328 page 447 |
Wolf:
1751 Den 20. junii
Ulerich Sÿdler, ob(iit) 17. IV. (1)800
Ruedolff Sÿdler u(nd) Anna Schnebli von Ottenbach
Note: So this is definitely in contradiction to Ulrich's parents being Hans Kaspar Sidler and Elisabeth Schneebeli. Looks like another bug in Billeter's data in this context.
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| 1751 Heinrich Schneebeli death 14 Mar 67 yrs 11 months Affoltern am Albis film 008014299 page 763 |
Wolf:
Abgestorbne A(nno) 1751, Sunday, 14. Merz
Mstr (Meister) Heinrich Schneebeli, Haffner, alt 67 Jahr und 11 Monat.
Note the "Haffner" (not Haffners"), his profession, not the line's nickname. On the other hand, professions have often been handed on for generations in a family - it is therefore plausible that a member of the "Haffners" line worked as Hafner himself. This makes this Heinrich Schneebeli most likely to Elsbeth's (*1713) father.
Aged 67 y 11 m means birth about April 1683 - not 1671!
On 15. Aprellen (1683) we have the baptism of Heinrich, son of M(eister) Heini Schneblj der Haffner and Anna Suterj - the couple got married 16.06.1668 - with the somewhat confusing listing of Heinrich as "Maurer" (did he change profession?).
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| 1765 Elsbeth Schneebeli, death 5 August 1765 Ottenbach, film 8014328 page 664 first entry. This record says she lived 52 years 8 mo 8 days. |
Defuncti 1765, den 5. augusti
Elsbetha Schnebelj, alt-Ehegaumer Hans Caspar Sÿdlers von Ottenbach ehel. gel. Haußfrauw, aet 52 Jahr 8 Monath und 8 tag; bettlägerig 6 Wochen, an auszehrender Krankheit.
The age in years (52) has been corrected - what was it first …likely 1(?). An age of 51y 8m 8d would result in end Nov 1713 as calculated DoB.
DeepL:
Wolf:
Defuncti 1765, den 5. augusti
Elsbetha Schnebelj, former spouse of Hans Caspar Sÿdler of Ottenbach ehel. gel. Haußfrauw, aged 52 years 8 months and 8 days; bedridden for 6 weeks, from wasting disease.
The age in years (52) was corrected - what was it first ...probably 1(?). An age of 51y 8m 8d would give end Nov 1713 as the calculated DoB
Defuncti 1765, den 5. augusti
Elsbetha Schnebelj, former spouse of Hans Caspar Sÿdler of Ottenbach ehel. gel. Haußfrauw, aged 52 years 8 months and 8 days; bedridden for 6 weeks, from wasting disease.
The age in years (52) was corrected - what was it first ...probably 1(?). An age of 51y 8m 8d would give end Nov 1713 as the calculated DoB
Death
Elsbeth Schneebli death 5 August 1765 Ottenbach, film
8014328 page 664 first entry, cause of death Zehrender Krankheit, e.g.
Tuberkulose, where they lost a lot of weight, the term is not used any longer
in medicine today.The title of the column is originally French la faible = the
weakness, here illness a bit strangely Germanized als Fäble. We still today
say: he / she has a faible - meaning weakness.
Elsbeth's lineage:
From Elsbeth's birth record we know Heinrich Schneebeli is her father and his birth date may be 1671. Does this chart represent
his pedigree? Schneebeli Family Tree film 8126958 page 296, Affoltern am Albis (Zürich)
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| Sidler Hegetschweiler Temple Record by Julius Billeter page 37 |
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Affoltern Kirche, Affoltern,
Zürich, AG, where Elsbeth was baptized and
had her confirmation when she
was 18 years old.
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| The distance from Elsbeth Schneebeli to her husband and marriage in Ottenbach. Affoltern is very similar to Ottenbach but with a mountain and without the River Reuss. |