How are the Scott's related to the Gardiners?
Kia ora Kent
We had some correspondence a year or so ago after I contacted you in relation to my Grandfather James Stepehen Scott and my Great Grandfather Arthur Hardie Scott. I just wanted to reiterate what a valuable source of information your blog has been for me and others in my family when researching and learning about our Scott family Heritage.
However one thing I didn’t clarify at the time, and have often often wondered about since is how the Gardiners and Scotts are connected - so I wondered if you could appraise me of the connections, so i can let others in my family know
Mnay thanks in anticipation!
Marilyn
Marilyn Scott
918 Oliphant Rd, Raureka, Hastings
Hawkes Bay
Aoteraoa / New Zealnd
Answer:
Marilyn, Nice to hear from you again after all these years! My great grandmother Margaret Stewart had a brother named Robert Stewart. He married Jane Scott. I believe that makes Robert Stewart and Jane Scott my great great aunt and uncle. Let me know if there is anything else I can clarity. Always a pleasure to hear from a distant cousin!!! Kent
1 Apr 1878 At St Pauls Church, Dundee. After Banns according to the forms of the Scottish Episcopal Church, Robert Stewart, Valet, Bachelor, 20, 186 Blackness Road, Son of Robert Stewart, Wood Carter (deceased), and Margaret Stewart MS Stewart, married Jane Scott, Power Loom Weaver, Spinster, 20, 186 Blackness Road. Daughter of Charles Scott, Cloth Inspector, and Margaret Scott MS Rattray. Witnesses: E. Skinner, Euphemia Sutherland (#73, 3rd Dist, Dundee).
Jane Scott was born 20 May 1857 at 12:15 p.m. at No. 5 Hawkhill, Dundee, Daughter of Charles Scott, lapper, and Margaret Scott MS Rattray, Informant: Charles Scott, father, not present (#655 , 2nd Dist, Dundee, FHL280429).
I sent for the above certificate, sure that the groom was my grandmother's brother, Robert Stewart. Then I saw the mother's name and decided it could not be. But after seeing some of the errors on death certificates where sons gave the wrong name for a mother they had known all their lives, I realized that Robert, who was three when his mother died, may not have known her first name. The above Jane Scott Stewart has the same birth date as the the Jean Scott Stewart who was baptized in the Dundee Branch just two weeks after the baptism of Robert Stewart, son of Robert and Betty. He is the only Robert Stewart born in Dundee 1857 whose father was Robert Stewart and mother's maiden name was Stewart. Robert's father may have carted wood at one time. His occupation apparently varied when he was not employed in farm work. This Robert may be the son of Robert and Elizabeth.
Because FamilySearch has one tree sometimes people put information or documents that are not accurate. The very best research on this family line was done by my aunt Dawn Gardiner James. Here is a link to the page that will give you more detailed info on Jane Scott: https://www.gatheringgardiners.com/2014/12/dawn-research-on-william-stewart.html
Of interest to me is that on 22 Sep 1879 Jean Scott Stewart, born 20 May 1857, Dundee, was baptized, Dundee Branch, LDS Church, by Elder A. Watson, confirmed the same day by Elder A. Laird (FHL104150)
Jane's father, Charles Scott was Irish and born about 1833 to John Scott and Catherine Cooper. Charles was a lapper (one who cleans cotton fibers before sheets fed into carding machines). Some family members say he was also a teacher. Charles died in 1888 from apoplexy.
Jane's mother, Margaret Rattray was born about 1832 in Forfar, Angus, Scotland. Margaret's parents John Murray Rattray and Jane or Jean Henderson had 8 children including Margaret. Margaret, taught adults to read and write in her own home. Margaret died from breast cancer in 1896. Her daughter Jane was the informant.
Charles Scott and Margaret Rattray's children:
1. Jane Scott May 20, 1857 m Robert Stewart
2. Arthur Hardie Scott April 16, 1860 m. Mary Stephen
3. John Rattray Scott June 24, 1861, died 1871
4. Ann Ogilvie Scott November 18, 1862, died 1862
5. Margaret Brodie Scott March 30, 1864, died 1870
6. Catherine Scott June 10, 1865
7. William Scott January 8, 1867
8. Agnes Fettes Scott March 5, 1869
9. David McDonald Scott February 10, 1871
10. Joseph Scott July 26, 1872
11. James Charles Haste Scott Sept 2, 1873
Jane's maternal grandfather or Margaret's father, John Rattray, born between 1793 and 1796, fought in the Napoleonic Wars and received a "Chelsea pension."
Eligible ex-soldiers who could not be housed in the Hospital were termed out-pensioners, receiving their pension from the Royal Hospital but living outside it. By 1815 there were 36,757 Chelsea pensioners.
Jane's brother, Arthur Hardie Scott, was a famous sea captain who traveled all over the world and fathered a large family.
Jane was a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. She married Robert Stewart, had two children. John and Margaret. Jane died of cancer of the uterus 3 years, in the 1899 at 41 Lyon Street with James Scott, her brother as informant.
Son, John Young Burridge Scott
Clarence Gardiner, Robert's nephew: "Robert Stewart, the youngest brother of
William, came and lived here. (USA) He worked in smelters. He died in
Anaconda or Butte, Montana of lead poisoning."
Sources:
1841
census Jane’s mother Margaret Rattray is 9 years old. They are living on Crofts Lane in Dundee.
Father John Rattray (Jane's grandfather) 45, lapper (one who cleans cotton fibers before sheets fed into carding machines)
Jane Rattray 40
David Rattray 15
James Rattray 13
George Rattray 11
Margaret Rattray 9 (Jane's mother)
Jane Rattray 7
Peter Rattray 5
Janet Rattray 2
1855 3 August
- Jane’s mother Margaret Rattray and father Charles Scott marry in
Dundee.
1857 20 May - Jane
is born at 12:15 pm at No 5 Hawkhill,
Dundee.
1857 19 Nov Robert Stewart was born at 2:00, on Princess Street at the home of his brother John. The family lives at 11 Crescent Street, Dundee
(1.2 miles away from Jane)
1861 Charles Scott, 28 is a Jute Weaver living at
Shep Loan, Thomson Land.
Charles 28
Margaret 28
Jane Scott 3
Arthur Scott 1
1862 Ann Ogilvie Scott is born. She dies 10 months later in a crib death. Her father discovers the body.
1871 Charles, 38
is living in St. Peter on 62 Taylors Land and is a lapper (one who cleans cotton fibres before sheets fed into carding machines)
Charles Scott 38
Margaret Scott 38
Jane Scott 13
Catherine Scott 6
Agnes Scott 2
David Scott 7 weeks
1878 April: At
St Pauls Church, Dundee. After Banns according to the forms of the
Scottish Episcopal Church, Robert Stewart, Valet, Bachelor, 20, 186
Blackness Road, Son of Robert Stewart, Wood Carter (deceased), and Margaret
Stewart MS Stewart, married Jane Scott, Power Loom Weaver, Spinster, 20,
186 Blackness Road. Daughter of Charles Scott, Cloth Inspector, and
Margaret Scott MS Rattray. Witnesses: E. Skinner, Euphemia Sutherland
(#73, 3rd Dist, Dundee).
1879 Sep 22
Jean Scott Stewart, born 20 May 1857, Dundee, was baptized,
Dundee Branch, LDS Church, by Elder A. Watson, confirmed the same day by Elder
A. Laird (FHL104150).
1881
census. Margaret Scott's family is living at St. Peter parish, 186 Blackness Rd., Dundee
Charles 48
Margaret 48
Arthur H Scott 20
Agnes Scott 12
David Scott 10
James Scott 7
1881
16 September 3 pm Robert and Jane Scott Stewart have a child at St. Peter
parish, Blackness Road Dundee. He is
named John Young Burridge Stewart.
Robert is a hotel waiter. Their
marriage is acknowledged to be April.
The birth is recorded September 24.
1888 Charles Scott, lapper
dies August 6th, 3 am at Murrygale, Dundee of apoplexy and seizures
13 days, He is 56. His deceased father is John Scott, cloth
lapper and mother Catherine Scott, Ms Cooper, deceased. The informant is Jane Scott, 31 Charles
Street. This is recorded August 6th
1888.
Jane living at 38 Charles Street, Dundee.
1891 census
Margaret Scott 59
Jane Scott 32 Theater attendant
Agnes Scott 22 Weaver
Jos Scott 17 Grocer
John Stewart 9 grandson Scholar
Margaret Stewart 8 granddaughter
Scholar (this is the only proof we have of Margaret’s existence.)
1895
Margaret Scott is renting at 13 North Ellen Street from
William Bagne who lives at 57 High Street.
1896
Margaret Scott, widow of Charles Scott, jute warehouseman dies March 7 at 6 h
10m pm at 11 North Ellen Street, Dundee.
She is 63 years old. Her father
was John Murray Rattray, army pensioner deceased and Jane Trttray, Ms
Henderson, deceased. The cause of death
is cancer of the breast 2 years, Dr. Steele Moon. Jeanie Stewart, daughter is present. This is recorded march 9th in
Dundee.
1899 Jane Stewart, widow of Robert
Bruage Stewart, Hotel Waiter at 13 North Ellen Street 9 h 40 min pm on January
3 1899. She is 40 years old. Her father is Charles Scott, shoemaker jur, (Charles must have begun a new career)
deceased and Margaret Scott Ms Rattray.
She dies of cancer of the uterus 3 years certified by George
Broson. The informant is James Scott,
brother, (he is 25 years old) 4 Lyon Street. This is
registered January 4th in Dundee.
Note: John Young Burrage Stewart was 18 when his mother died.
1906 John J. B Stewart, carpenter,
immigrates November to Quebec City
Quebec, Canada. He is 25 and born in
1881 in Scotland. The ship is the
Sicilian.
Research: 1841 census: Jane's father:
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1841 census: Jane's mother:
1855 Jane's Father's Marriage:
1857 Jane Scott was born 20 May 1857 at 12:15 p.m. at No. 5 Hawkhill, Dundee, Daughter of Charles Scott, lapper, and Margaret Scott MS Rattray, Informant: Charles Scott, father, not present (#655 , 2nd Dist, Dundee, FHL280429). 1857 19 Nov 1857 Robert Stewart was born 19 Nov 1857, at 2:00 p.m., son of Robert Stewart, labourer, and Elizabeth [Betty] Stewart, at Princes Street, Dundee. Home at 11 Crescent Street. Informant: Robert Stewart, father, not present. (#1592 1st Dist, Dundee, FHL280428). Robert was born at his brother John's home on Princess Street. Robert and Elizabeth lived 1.2 miles from each other, 23 minutes walking distance: Note: Blackness Road where she eventually lives, dead ends into Hawkhill Street.  1861 census: Jane is 3
 1862: Jane was 5 when her father discovered her sister "dead in bed."  1864 Margaret Brodie Scott is born:   1871 February 21, John Rattray dies from typhoid, or a bacterial disease spread through contaminated food and water or close contact.  1871 census: Jane was 13:
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Apr 1878 At St Pauls Church, Dundee. After Banns according to the forms of the Scottish Episcopal Church, Robert Stewart, Valet, Bachelor, 20, 186 Blackness Road, Son of Robert Stewart, Wood Carter (deceased), and Margaret Stewart MS Stewart, married Jane Scott, Power Loom Weaver, Spinster, 20, 186 Blackness Road. Daughter of Charles Scott, Cloth Inspector, and Margaret Scott MS Rattray. Witnesses: E. Skinner, Euphemia Sutherland (#73, 3rd Dist, Dundee).
22
Sep 1879 Jean Scott Stewart, born 20
May 1857, Dundee, was baptized, Dundee Branch, LDS Church, by Elder A.
Watson, confirmed the same day by Elder A. Laird (FHL104150).
1881 census: Jane's maternal grandparents:
| Name: | Margaret Rattray Or Scott | ||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Age: | 48 | ||||||||||||||
| Estimated Birth Year: | abt 1833 | ||||||||||||||
| Relationship: | Wife | ||||||||||||||
| Spouse's name : | Charles Scott | ||||||||||||||
| Gender: | Female | ||||||||||||||
| Where born: | Forfar, Forfarshire | ||||||||||||||
| Registration Number: | 282/1 | ||||||||||||||
| Registration district: | St Peter | ||||||||||||||
| Civil Parish: | St Peter | ||||||||||||||
| Town: | Dundee | ||||||||||||||
| County: | Angus | ||||||||||||||
| Address: | 186 Blackness Rd. | ||||||||||||||
| ED: | 26 | ||||||||||||||
| Household schedule number: | 49 | ||||||||||||||
| LINE: | 9 | ||||||||||||||
| Roll: | cssct1881_81 | ||||||||||||||
| Household Members: |
|
1881 census: Name: Margaret Rattray Or Scott Age: 48 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833
Relationship: Wife Spouse's
name : Charles Scott Gender: Female Where born: Forfar, Forfarshire
Registration Number: 282/1
Registration district: St Peter Civil Parish: St Peter Town: Dundee County:
Angus Address: 186 Blackness Rd.
ED: 26 Household schedule number: 49 LINE: 9 Roll: cssct1881_81
1881 census: (taken April 3, 1881)
| Name: | Robert Stewart | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Age: | 23 | ||||||
| Estimated Birth Year: | abt 1858 | ||||||
| Relationship: | Head | ||||||
| Spouse's name : | Jane Stewart | ||||||
| Gender: | Male | ||||||
| Where born: | Dundee, Forfarshire | ||||||
| Registration Number: | 282/1 | ||||||
| Registration district: | St Peter | ||||||
| Civil Parish: | St Peter | ||||||
| Town: | Dundee | ||||||
| County: | Angus | ||||||
| Address: | Annfield House | ||||||
| Occupation: | Calender Worker | ||||||
| ED: | 26 | ||||||
| Household schedule number: | 174 | ||||||
| LINE: | 19 | ||||||
| Roll: | cssct1881_81 | ||||||
| Household Members: |
|
Note: CALENDER WORKER - operated a machine which pressed using two large rollers (calender) used to press and finish fabrics or paper
1881 Jane and Robert have a son: September 16, birth of their son.
| Name: | John Young Burridge Stewart |
|---|---|
| Gender: | Male |
| Birth Date: | 16 Sep 1881 |
| Birth Place: | St. Peter, Dundee, Angus, Scotland |
| Father: | Robert Stewart |
| Mother: | Jane Scott Stewart |
| FHL Film Number: | 232638 |
| Reference ID: | v 282-1 p 247 Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01847-5 , System Origin: Scotland-EASy , GS Film number: 232638 , Reference ID: v 282-1 p 247 |
1888 Jane's father dies from apoplexy and seizures
Apoplexy also includes hemorrhaging with the gland and accompanying
neurological problems such as confusion, headache, and impairment of
consciousness.The word apoplexy may have been used to refer to the symptom of sudden loss of consciousness immediately preceding death.
Robert died sometime between 1883 and 1891
Here are possibilities:
From 1891 to 1899 family live at 13 N Ellen Street, Dundee:
1891 census:
| Name: | Margt Scott | ||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Age: | 59 | ||||||||||||||
| Estimated Birth Year: | abt 1832 | ||||||||||||||
| Relationship: | Head | ||||||||||||||
| Gender: | Female | ||||||||||||||
| Where born: | Dundee, Forfarre | ||||||||||||||
| Registration Number: | 282/4 | ||||||||||||||
| Registration district: | St Andrew | ||||||||||||||
| Civil Parish: | Dundee | ||||||||||||||
| County: | Angus | ||||||||||||||
| Address: | 13 N Ellen St | ||||||||||||||
| ED: | 44 | ||||||||||||||
| Household schedule number: | 9 | ||||||||||||||
| LINE: | 16 | ||||||||||||||
| Roll: | CSSCT1891_96 | ||||||||||||||
| Household Members: |
|
1895 Valuation Rolls, like rental lists:
Jane Stewart, fourth down
 |
| 127 High Street, Dundee |
Jane Stewart top row
Note: Jane's mother, Margaret, is living in the same place Jane will die, four years later: 13 Ellen Street, Dundee. Jane is living at 127 High street 1 up.
Margaret Scott's death: Jane calls herself Jeanie Stewart
1899 Scotland deaths: Her brother James is present at her death. She died at 41 Lyon Street.
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| Add caption
The following is research and needs further work:
1906 immigration to Canada:
 1930 census | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Research:
1940 census
Research: January 2014
Hi Kent
Thanks very much for getting in touch. I must admit that I’ve only really tinkered with Ancestry rather than getting properly into the detail – yet!
I do have some family notes from my mother that she got originally from a great aunt and your heads up on Charles Scott being Irish makes sense. I think I was thrown by later census reports where he claims to be from Dundee but the 1841 Census makes sense as my mother’s notes tell me he lived in Cherryfield. He did become apparently a teacher and I wonder if this encouraged him to ‘forget’ his Irish roots. Certainly the notes suggest that his wife, Margaret, taught adults to read and write in her own home. A sight of her death certificate would be very kind.
My great grandfather was Arthur Hardie Scott so I have some good anecdotal info on him. One of the first ships on which he sailed was the Dunbritton, later becoming First Mate on the Olivebank, then Sea Captain of the Gerard C Toby. He moved to the USA in 1902 and his regular sea routes were from San Francisco to Hawaii and Alaska. He got his Inspector Licence to Masters on 18/10/1905 and this meant he could take his children on board with him – many great stories! He met both Jack London and Robert Louis Stevenson, who both sailed with him and wrote about him.
All the best
Scott
Thanks Kent
Arthur Hardie Scott was married to Mary Smith Stephen, daughter of James Stephen and Mary Miller Burnett. She was born in Brechin on 27th February 1866 and they were married on the 31st January 1888 in St Paul’s Episcopal Church in Dundee. They had one son, Jim (1890 to 1933), and seven daughters – Mary (1891 to 1983), Margaret (Daisy) (1894 to 1965), Dora (1896, died in childhood), Olive (1899 to 1982), Etta (1901 to 1991), Martha (1904 to 1954) and Alma (1907 to 1968). Mary moved with Arthur to California in 1902, returned to Scotland in 1910 as a widow, and returned to the USA in 1924 after the death of her mother. She died in Billings, Montana on 22nd June 1950.
All the best
Scott
From: "vicki murray" <queenvictoria18@hotmail.com>
Subject: [SCOTT] SCOTT/RATTRAY
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 18:15:02 +1300
I have birth details for the following but no marriage or death details.
Does anyone recognise these persons.There are some descendents in New
Zealand and USA that I am aware of.
Margaret Rattray married Charles Scott 3 Aug 1855, Dundee, Angus, Scotland.
Charles and Margaret had the following children;
Jane Scott b. 20 May 1857 Dundee
Arthur Hardie Scott b. 16 April 1860 Dundee
John Rattray Scott b. 24 June 1861 Dundee
Ann Ogilvie Scott b.18 Nov 1862 Dundee
Margaret Brodie Scott b. 30 Mar 1864 Dundee
Catherine Scott b. 10 June 1865 Dundee
William Scott b. 8 Jan 1867 Dundee
Agnes Fettes Scott b. 5 Mar 1869 Dundee
David McDonald Scott b. 10 Feb 1871 Dundee
Joseph Scott b. 26 Jul 1872 Dundee
James Charles Haste Scott b. 2 Sep 1873 Dundee
Would like to be in contact with anyone who has information on these people. I have more info on Arthur Hardie Scott but not his death details.
Thanking you
Vicki
New Zealand
Until next time.....